# Elizabeth

### Combo notes

* Health: 8,500 (was 8,000 in 1.1)
* You cannot \[5B] > dash cancel > 236A as her sliding hitbox is very strange - 236A must be done immediately.
* Difficult to pick up with 2C in the corner.  2C pickup will work normally if she is high enough on \[5B].
* Fuzzy target

### Unique responses and punishes

<table><thead><tr><th width="193">Move</th><th>Response/notes</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr><td>5C in neutral</td><td>Be outside 5C(1) range and roll on reaction - no punish unless perfect timing, but is your turn (don't roll early, will get hit)<br>Be at max jump height as you air dash to get over it for a punish</td></tr><tr><td>2C or [2C] in neutral</td><td>5C > 22X in response to destroy thanatos once it attacks. D spike is often best</td></tr><tr><td>5C (or anything really) > 5D</td><td>Can take a persona card by jumping then j.B<br>Can also jump backwards delay j.A, which will also allow you to airdash forwards. Be aware on either of these that if you're in 5B<br>5A works on the read, but not on reaction.<br>Literally unpunishable without D gears or instant block > IAD j.B, so don't even try.</td></tr><tr><td>5C > 2C</td><td>This is a frametrap when 2C is uncharged, but 2C can be charged any amount, so be quick (and preferably IB) if you're going to break [2C] with 5A</td></tr><tr><td>5C/mabufudyne</td><td>Roll and punish</td></tr><tr><td>Mabufudyne resets</td><td>In general, can be avoided by not breaking the ice, but situations vary</td></tr><tr><td>SB maragidyne/ maragidyne in general</td><td>Can IK if predicted and close enough<br>IB the hits multiple times to reduce the distance it drags you to her, plus get more meter</td></tr><tr><td>Garu</td><td>Contest with j.C - j.B and [2B] can also be used if well spaced.<br>Note - this move has no recovery if used correctly, so be careful attempting to punish.</td></tr><tr><td>IK</td><td>Can OMC and block if you have the meter<br>Can IK back immediately</td></tr><tr><td>DP and ghastly wail</td><td>Jump/Hop into falling CH j.2B > dash 5D, do the rest of the combo apart from j.2B parts</td></tr><tr><td>DP (tech'd)</td><td>If you tech a Liz dp (or equally a grab), you can sweep > 214A, which will hit her if she tries to 5C. This must be done near-frame perfect.<br>If she backdashes, both C beast and D gears will catch her.</td></tr><tr><td>Mahamaon</td><td><p>Tell apart from mudo by no unblockable symbol on startup.</p><p>SB chain knuckle after superflash for full fatal counter punish.<br>If close enough, you can 5A or 5B after the superflash, but not 2B (16 after flash).<br>IK works if less than 50% screen distance away.</p></td></tr><tr><td>Mamudoon</td><td><p>Tell apart from hama via the unblockable symbols.</p><p>Has invuln (1-43, 57 recovery), but runs out once she pulls the card. 2B just as she pulls the card to time the punish.</p></td></tr></tbody></table>

### Overview and tips

Dustloop page [here](https://dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=P4U2R/Elizabeth)

Note: The Elizabeth dustloop page is notoriously bad, with information ranging from innacurate, to wrong, to outright deceptive - approach with caution.

Elizabeth has had a frightening upgrade from 1.1 to 2.5, and if you go in thinking she's still low tier, you will get completely destroyed. Almost everything in her moveset has been upgraded, especially of note is the fact that her C moves have persona invulnerability until active frames, meaning Labrys will lose what used to be trades, and take significant amounts of damage for it. Equally, a lot of her frame data is better, and honestly a lot of the moves you'll care about as Labrys were quite good to begin with. This plus a health upgrade that makes killing her harder and mind charge even more deadly is frankly overkill. All in all, one of the toughest matchups you'll face.

A lot of your ranged options such as orb and spike will be shut down by maziodyne (zio), which will take a persona card, destroy the projectile, and if you're not careful, hit you. Zio also makes it incredibly hard to approach, and as of this version, you cannot projectile invuln through A zio using SB chain knuckle, as it has physical properties that makes it hit you anyway. Zio can be baited by super jumping over it and dashing for the punish, but the timing is very tight if you don't want to get 2B'd. One way of achieving this is setting an orb, then super jumping the zio that's used to destroy it. In awakening, the A zios become much faster, but are easier to jump/crouch under depending on the versions.

Similarly, her 5C, 2C and j.C are excellent and shutting down any approaches, and require specific answers to deal with, and most of the time you'll usually still lose one of your own cards for it. Her 2B is also one of the best in the game, with head invuln from frames 6-29, only 9 frames of startup, and 18 active frames! Also, it puts her airborne from frame 5 and hits behind, so will stuff any throw/cross-up setups when mashed. Basically - don't try anything above Liz.

Once she's in awakening, it just gets worse, as all of her persona specials get a buff, causing them to be insanely fast, and even gain new properties that will allow her to combo you to death from over half health. SB mabufudyne becomes an instant full screen anti-air (and anti-ground, honestly it hits everything) that she can do over 5k from, and zio becomes 9 frames faster. Bascially - don't let her get into awakening if you can help it, spending your axe level if you need to. Maybe even consider using your burst - it's that bad. You also have to learn two completely different movesets, one for awakening and one for non-awakening. Have fun with that.

As for how to deal with all of this - you need to play a very mixed game of patience and constant forward movement. Once Liz has you blocking, you have to be very patient until you find a way out, taking a persona card if you can. In neutral, it's about closing the gap with good use of dashes, jumps, and rolls. If you can reach just outside of 5C (1) range - you are able to either dash into a ground normal or go for the IAD j.B, and which you choose will depend on the Liz player's use of 2B. You can also roll 5C on reaction here, but this only punishes if the roll is early enough. Do check the [table below](#unique-responses-and-punishes) for responses to each button.

As for 5D and dealing with it - the best advice I can give is to always be ready for it. Some say you can look at Liz, for 5 extra frames of reaction time, but this isn't viable advice when you need to be looking at Thanatos to deal with any other option. Also note that her cancel windows from moves (e.g. sweep, 5B, 5C) are obscene, and 5D is a hitgrab so you cannot rely on the usual throw invulnerability after blocking, recovering, or getting hit. Also if you're recovering from ice in the air, you will need to backdash immediately after the ice break to avoid a j.D regrab. Is all this humanly possible? Not really. Will Liz players gaslight you into thinking it is? Absolutely.

Some final quirks that you'll notice in Liz players that you can exploit:

* Because of the relatively short recovery of Liz DP, on whiff some Liz players will attempt it again - so make sure you watch for it if you aren't able to get a clean punish immediately
* Liz players tend to have specific reactions to DP getting tech'd - pay close attention and figure out punishes (e.g you can sweep Liz 5B as it's chest attribute)
* As Liz's guard cancel attack is awful, they are likely to use guard cancel roll instead, so be ready with grabs to punish these, and consider 5A > 5B instead of 5AA > 5B to backdash earlier.
* If they try to use zio to destroy orbs, you can set an orb then jump over the maziodyne for a punish, at the cost of a card (despite Ariadne's projectile invuln, A zio is physical as well as a projectile.
* See if you can bait 5C/bufu using specific behaviours, which will make it easier to roll

### Main adjustments to make

Using orb is generally off the table, as it can be punished with A maziodyne, and even if you manage to get it out, zio will destroy it. It will sometimes force her to block or take a card, but 2C will also armour through it. Can also be used to bait zio and jump over it for a punish.

The safejump does technically work, but you must still deal with the DP, either by backdashing or jumping out. Mind charge may allow her to invuln through the j.B depending on timings but at worst you will be around even on landing, and will likely hit her anyway. Also - be careful with using throw or jumping away as an option, and 2B will stuff both of these cleanly and lead into heavy damage. It is also possible adjust the safejump with a hitstop OS by using j.B > 44 > 5A, which will backdash her DP on whiff, otherwise will 5A on block or hit.

The range on Labrys DP does allow you to DP certain strings or grab setups, but, as always, is bad for normal reasons, and you will get hit into a full CH conversion for it if it whiffs, even if Liz is half a screen away, so use it sparingly. Lots of Liz moves are multi hit too, so probably don't even attempt  this until she's entered the persona parts of her pressure. You cannot DP 5D on reaction as it's too slow/5D recovers too fast.

Equally, Liz's DP hits very far away, and even though the startup is long, the recovery of all Labrys' moves are long enough that it will hit you even at your furthest ranges. Be careful during pressure and incorporate hops or points where you can back off/jump to bait and punish (either backdash > dash 2B or jump > falling j.2B for full punishes. Watch for a 2nd use if you fail to punish the first.

Sadly spike and/or orb oki does very little to stop Liz, as her DP will move her out of it, and even if you tech the grab, you will still lose a persona card and not have the spike come out as the initial grab counts as Labrys being hit. Neither sweep nor guillotine keep you far enough away to avoid DP. What can be done is placing spike in front of her in a way that may catch rolls/DPs. Also be aware that Liz is very slippery, so punishing may be tricky. Consider using delay hop j.2B instead of normal oki options with spike/orb, or just waiting, which will cover multiple options.

j.B is not very strong in this matchup. It is fine when going air to air, although it is still outranged by Liz j.B, but you will get decimated by 2B if Liz is grounded. Consider using if Liz is jumping around a lot and you're within range to get a quick strike. Can also hit her through magarudyne.

Chain knuckle isn't great in this matchup as most of the time you will not get a hit with it - either you will get hit (A maziodyne will ignore SB chain's projectile invuln), or Thanatos will tank the hit and leave you in recovery for a while. It is good against defensive 2Cs, but that's the best case scenario use. Liz roll will also give her a full punish if she manages to roll it.

Spike does have some use in this matchup - if you manage to get SB spike out, it will usually lock her down or force her aerial, which is generally a good thing for Labrys and will let you close the gap. Another thing to consider is if you use 5C to break Thanatos, you can then cancel into D or SB spike to potentially lock Liz down, and make Ariadne invulnerable.

Liz has multiple strong answers to gears in the forms of jump into magarudyne, gastly wail, or even instant kill (which she can get SP for with mind charge too). However, D gears can be used to hit her when she's feeling safe using Thanatos at range, so consider using D gears more often.

j.D will to very little for you in practically every scenario - maybe only as a way of setting up if Liz is using Magarudyne to air stall. Equally if you have Liz in the corner, a retreating j.D will keep her locked down and unable to use Thanatos.
