Marie
No, I don't want your presents >:(
Combo notes
Note that Marie is one of the characters that is difficult to pick up with 2C in the corner. 2C pickup will work normally if she is high enough on [5B].
Fuzzy target, requires delay j.C
Unique responses and punishes
| Move | Response/notes |
|---|---|
5A | Can be hopped if used as meaty, but not punished due to the low recovery. |
5B/run up 5B | Backdash to get out the way, then punish the recovery (non-CH) |
5C | Can be rolled due to recovery |
Run Amok (bag hit) | First hit can be IB'd to DP the second, but she can OMC in response. SB is armoured from 5-14, so be ready |
Chocolate (ground present) | Can be dashed through, just watch for Marie herself. Attack counts as projectile. Can also be rolled for extra safety SB will turn around, even after being triggered, but dash can still work. Cannot be rolled. Best to trigger then jump if possible (single jump into its trigger radius, then dash/double jump as appropriate) |
Cloud (air present) | Starts just above IAD height,meaning you can IAD in response to it, but then tracks you horizontally and vertically, so cannot IAD once it's out if you've been on the ground for a little bit. Once it's over you, you can't jump. Two are spawned in cloudy weather, one tracking you and one tracking Marie. SB tracks faster, but doesn't track veritcally. |
Stigma (magatama) | Chest and projectile, meaning sweep, SB chain, and roll can all work to deal with it. On block, only -7 (or +3 on SB), so beware of a second one. |
Evil eye | Will eat one orb, and pull Labrys into it. SB eye will make it so you cannot move towards her properly, and will continue to pull you even if you hit her, until you're touching the ground. Chain to prevent usage, but once it's out there's not much you can do. Detonate is +16 so don't contest, and SB place + SB detonate is unblockable, so watch for that and GCR/DP if you see an unblockable setup coming. |
DP | On block, dash in 2B for full punish, but only if she doesn't have meter. If she does, expect a shell of denial cancel |
Shell | (Any version) Requires instant block to punish, but will give a air 5A if you do, unless she has meter to OMC, as which point you cannot do anything. Roll does not give a punish for Labrys (unless you end the roll in throw range), but will remove Maries' option to OMC from shell. You still have to watch for a 2nd DP/super though |
Shining arrows | Kaguya can be destroyed, but her hitbox is only her body (not her wings), so be careful going for this. DP can be used to deal with pressure applied during this, but is also her best starter, so be aware of the risk |
Overview and tips
Dustloop page here
Marie seems pretty tame on the surface, but actually has access to a lot of strong tools that will make neutral extremely difficult to navigate. Thankfully, with a decent level of aggession, you can shut down her ability to use these tools. Just be aware that she has multiple good ways to punish obvious approaches/punish attempts, so make sure to switch up your approach enough to keep things unpredictable. This isn't to say she can't hold her own with her normals either - these are all either larger and faster than yours, with significant payoff if she hits you aerial (which is where you want to be most of the time), so make sure to watch your spacing regardless.
The main thing to be aware of in neutral are the presents - if she gets either the ground present (a.k.a. chocolate), or air present (a.k.a cloud) out, suddenly your options become very limited. These do not go away unless Marie gets hit, and grant her full control of either the ground or the air. While there are responses to get around some types of presents, Marie is free to move and cover these escape options, so simply trying to get around/past them won't work well. Chain knuckle can be used to try and catch the startup, but if she instead jumps, rolls, or even cancels the present pull stance into a jump, you will get hit for trying this. Therefore, the best thing to attempt is to try and stay within IAD range to threaten attacks, and quickly close the gap if you ever find yourself out of that range. Do throw in a few chain knuckles if they get too present-happy though. If her j.D starts causing problems, stick close and get a j.B in if possible.
She also has multiple "win neutral" moves, including SB eye, which will pull you out of range if you try to attack/move forward, and SB chocolate, which has no timer, can change direction (even while attacking). If either of these are out, or both cloud and chocolate are out, it's a case of holding off and either trying to respond to her approach or waiting for a gap. You can attempt attacks, but these come at great risk, either because SB eye will continue pulling you until you touch the ground even if you hit (causing drops), or because if you get an attack blocked under SB chololate, you're likely getting hit. Do however remember that grabs, even if tech'd, will destroy these moves, so may be worth trying in these situations.
Marie pressure is a lot like yours - ranged with a lot of staggers and reset points, but not many actual high/low/throw threats without OMC. That being said, without a DP this causes a lot of problems, and you'll have to be crafty or make a big read to escape safely. Also, she does have some genuine 50/50 opportunities, including infinite gatling j.As, double overheads from a j.2B > j.B gatling, and just genuinely strong frame data. The main thing is to be ready for the pressure reset attempts (ususally projectile/eye/present setups) or jumps, which should give you time to attack back or leave.
When it's your turn to pressure, there's a few things to be wary of, as she actually has many excellent defensive options. The first simple one is her sweep, which is extremely fast at 10F and moves her foward a lot, with low recovery for a sweep. She also has an excellent DP, with relatively short startup (13F), ridiculous active frames (15, making it not possible to roll in some situations), and covers all around her. It's also available to her in the air, and low to the ground actually has shorter recovery than her normal DP. It does leave her slightly above ground too, so be careful when punishing, although 2B should always work.
She also has access to Shell - a very strong reversal super that she can also do after a blocked DP, or even directly on wakeup. It hits all around her, is very quick, and pushes very far. As Labrys, you cannot punish reliably with a roll, so for a proper punish you need to IB to not get pushed too far. Be very careful punishing DPs if this is available.
Some final quirks that you'll notice in Marie players that you can exploit:
If you can figure out the cirucumstances where they like to use presents, chain is a very strong punish option, just remember your fatal routes
Heavy j.D usage is punishable by pre-emptive aggression (super jump dash j.B)
While her eye move does eat orb, if you can bait her into doing it in response, that's a free chain knuckle FC punish
Main adjustments to make
Orb is fairly strong here, although clashes with eyes, with both getting destroyed when they collide. If Marie does eye in response to orb, chain can be used as a punish, but if you don't do that in time, it just goes fairly even.
Safejump works well, just remember her cancel options if she DPs.
DP works about as well as normal here (not very), and she can DP you in response easily, but she is then susceptible to charge DP as she doesn't move. Just be aware of her super cancel. Her DP is 360, extremely active, and puts her slightly airborne, so cannot be rolled easily, or crossed up (and Maries will often DP in response to crossups). Be ready to punish in the correct manner.
Spike oki is effective as her DP doesn't move her, but there is no way to enforce it without entering shell/dp range. Max range 5A technically can outrange her DP, but good luck lining that up.
j.B is ok here as a way of controlling space. Her 2B is very fast and covers both sides, although is somewhat small and not too active, so varying the timing and approaching from different angles can make it hard for her to time properly. It also has very little recovery, so cannot be baited with air delays as she can just do it again. She also has her own j.B, which has the same horizontal reach as yours, but is 5f faster (10f startup) and gives a ton of damage on CH at pretty much any height. Also hits behind her very far - basically she has the advantage air to air unless you're above/below her. Think of it as a faster Narukami j.2B. The important point is that you need to not be obvious with your j.B usage or it will get beaten.
Chain knuckle forms a big part of your gameplan here, despite how weak it is. It is in effect your only way of dissuading Marie from using presents, so you need to be ready with it. Knowing when to use it, and when to threaten it but not use it, is important too, as if she catches you whiffing, you will get hit.
Gears is generally fine here - she has a slightly tougher time punishing it, but it can be done. If she throws out an SB present, you will get hit by it, but will recover before she's free from gears. May be worth in some circumstances (although note you will lose a card)
j.D can help make space, but sadly as presents can't be destroyed, usually isn't worth the time to do unless she's being aggressive. Potentially useful if she's super jumping a lot, as it could block her way down, at least in your direction.
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